hello there, after getting over the Enjnoyence by apple, i still prefere the iPod touch 3G to the Zune. Yes the Zune is Great Looking (in a way) has a great GUI, has an FM radio, Music, Video ect... and will probabaly have a better Sound Card. it just misses one more thing... one HUGE ENORMOUS thing.
that THING is the Apps Store. yes it has games but does it have applications? can you peer to peer with some (Multiplayer). is it setup So Easily that all you have to do is Press home and tap on the Application.
i would Completely Understand if some of you are fed up with your iPod touch and are board with the GUI and everything, but i reckon the Zune still won't be as good as an Ipod touch. the Zii, that looks Awsome, but i still won't by one. go ahead, by a zune, but just don't be disapointed when you can't use Maps or there's no Email funtion.

It isn't even out yet. . . And did the Ipod touch get released with an app store?

It smells like someone is butthurt and feels the need to take their anger out on an unreleased product.

u mad?

Everyone keeps complaining about a lack of an AppStore. The iPod Touch/iPhone was still popular without the AppStore.

Yea and microsoft has already confirmed that there will b an app store

every company has to start somewhere, remember when the first ipod touch came out? there was no app store, no one complained. the zune is getting an app store, so stop complaining

I straight up dont like zunes and never will...and the zii egg looks terrible to meh...idk bout u guys but im with Apple till i die...(typical Apple Fanboy)...idc if this starts something...y cant technology get along lol

i dont think its fair to judge a device that isnt really out yet.

its a new device, and will need time to prove itself regardless.

but i wont be an early adopter. i wouldnt consider one for at least a year.

Personally I think the touch was garbage until I had to jailbreak the bitch then it became something to actually use other than music. The point of the matter is that two different companies are making two different PMP which are used in different ways. Microsoft obviously wants to keep ZuneHD to being more of an PMP rather than a pocketPC which the touch has the ability to be w/ all the apps from the crapstore (yes, appstore is a piece of shit, minus few gems here and there) so to speak negatively towards the ZuneHD which isn't out is retarded.

to everyone saying the ipod touch didnt have an app store when it was out but it was still popular:
ill tell u why. was there any REAL competition?
no
that's why.
now there's real competition and you need an app store asap to compete with apple now

to everyone saying the ipod touch didnt have an app store when it was out but it was still popular:
ill tell u why. was there any REAL competition?
no
that's why.
now there's real competition and you need an app store asap to compete with apple now

We all know it WILL have an app store. It's just a matter of when. They are probably waiting until they have a nice amount of apps to launch with.

I think they have apps already lined up for the release. Microsoft isn't some half ass company alot of fanboys like to complain/think they are. If they took notice from apple they should of already had there 'appstore' already full of developers getting shit worked out so that a week after or the day of the release they can just start dropping apps into people's laps. If that happens I think alot of naysayers and bandwagoners (you know who you are) will be happy with ZuneHD. Personally I think i'm gonna rock a nano, been wanting one since my Mini (yeah I had one, loved that motherfucker to death til the battery died on me.) crapped out. So either way I don't believe ZuneHD will be hurting in sells. Plus lets remember this is a ipod touch forum theres no way there is gonna be that much love for microsoft products here.

to everyone saying the ipod touch didnt have an app store when it was out but it was still popular:
ill tell u why. was there any REAL competition?
no
that's why.
now there's real competition and you need an app store asap to compete with apple now

Ok, for one, they didn't have an appstore not because there was no competition, but because there was no point in having one. It was their baby, they took baby steps as they gradually progressed with it no matter how much the opposite may be thought. And I'm sorry, but having a bias against all non apple products doesn't really make a single thing you say valid.......to truly put forth an argument you need an understanding of both sides, yelling your point out doesn't make you right it makes you dismissive and unimportant to an argument because you have too much of a bias to even comprehend the other side.

One word. Jailbreak. Zune might eventually be 'Jailbroken', but will NEVER compair to the Touch. I will admit though that both are great machines, and I wounldnt care one way or the other if I was presented with either.
Same goes for Zii EGG.

One word. Jailbreak. Zune might eventually be 'Jailbroken', but will NEVER compair to the Touch. I will admit though that both are great machines, and I wounldnt care one way or the other if I was presented with either.
Same goes for Zii EGG.

It's not even out yet. Are you from the future or something?

I thought the Zii was open source? So no need to jailbreak if thats the case. And a jailbreak for the ZuneHD.. maybe.

Personally I think the touch was garbage until I had to jailbreak the bitch then it became something to actually use other than music. The point of the matter is that two different companies are making two different PMP which are used in different ways. Microsoft obviously wants to keep ZuneHD to being more of an PMP rather than a pocketPC which the touch has the ability to be w/ all the apps from the crapstore (yes, appstore is a piece of shit, minus few gems here and there) so to speak negatively towards the ZuneHD which isn't out is retarded.

Why are you Even on this Website?
it's iPod touch FANS. coming on ipod touch FANS and Hating the iPod is more retarded then me.

AND.... the iPod Touch is an IPOD and ipods you use for music Because it's an freaking IPOD!!

AND... if you hate it so much, why have you still kept it!

AND... the App store isn't crap, do you Know any Mobile Store that has over 1 Billion download. it's not mine or apples fault that your to Cheap to Spend £5.00 on Great apps.

EDIT: those developers Work hard as nails to Release Games for and we give them: no respect, no anything Really.

One word. Jailbreak. Zune might eventually be 'Jailbroken', but will NEVER compair to the Touch. I will admit though that both are great machines, and I wounldnt care one way or the other if I was presented with either.
Same goes for Zii EGG.

The ZuneHD isn't released yet, but there's a chance that Microsoft will actually let people use their devices to their full potential without trying to lock them down.

By that, I mean a jailbreak might not even be necessary.

sorry bout this thread. i thought the only thing the Zune had to offer differently to the ipod is an FM radio. and what do thay mean by HD FM? my PC speakers are HD aswell but i can't hear any differences to normal speaker? it will probably help with radio alot though.

sorry bout this thread. i thought the only thing the Zune had to offer differently to the ipod is an FM radio. and what do thay mean by HD FM? my PC speakers are HD aswell but i can't hear any differences to normal speaker? it will probably help with radio alot though.

"HD" is a monkier that is slapped on to any and all possible products nowadays. HD just stands for "high definition." HD doesn't really apply to audio, because unless you're using really shitty speakers, your speakers are high definition.

High definition radio refers to radio that's different from normal FM. It has superior clarity and (supposedly) better stations.

Personally I think the touch was garbage until I had to jailbreak the bitch then it became something to actually use other than music. The point of the matter is that two different companies are making two different PMP which are used in different ways. Microsoft obviously wants to keep ZuneHD to being more of an PMP rather than a pocketPC which the touch has the ability to be w/ all the apps from the crapstore (yes, appstore is a piece of shit, minus few gems here and there) so to speak negatively towards the ZuneHD which isn't out is retarded.


Must I do this again...

Minigore, Rolando, WHERE!, soundAmp, (Yeah!) Gotta catch'em all gotta catch'em all! (Yeah!) Gotta catch'em all gotta catch'em all! I Am T-Pain, Pocket God, Harbor Master, (Yeah!) Gotta catch'em all gotta catch'em all! (Yeah!) Gotta catch'em all gotta catch'em all! TwitterFon, Tap Tap, Koi Pond, CraigsPro FLASHLITE! (Yeah!) Gotta catch'em all gotta catch'em all! (Yeah!) Gotta catch'em all gotta catch'em all!

* to be read in the theme of the PokeRap.


Not to mention the other couple hu-err, thousand.

ACTUAL, this is a good point. The App Store is sometimes like Pokemon. o:! Sometimes you catch yourself a useless Metapod that only knows Harden (Lol, harden.) or sometimes you catch a HOLY SHIT! A RANDOM ZAPDOS, OUT OF NOWHERE?


GOTTA CATCH THAT THING.

Akiyama, I think that he was referring to that the fact that the good apps in the appstore (such as the ones you listed) are drowned out in a sea of fart noises and other useless crap.

@Unclemario I don't hate the ipod. Never have hated the ipod, I just don't understand everyones retard logic in thinkin' that the ipod is the epitomy of PMP greatness while they're are other products that are just as good (or can be if certain companies marketed there shit right). And yes I am cheap, very very very cheap man. Everything I have on my PC is from torrents, rapidshare, megaupload, etc, etc. Same w/ my apps. I'm living w/ minimum amount of currency, so fuck! that i'm not giving them my money. It's a personal choice and i'm stickin' with it. But appstore has never been my reason for stickin' with apple. It's been the fact that I like their PMPs and just the same as that microsoft is upgrading their shit, i'm taking noticed to that.

OK, the zune is not out yet, but still the touch's app store is great. I highly doubt that people will start making apps for the zune app store when there is an apple one that will get a lot more publicity. IPHONES, and ipods wheras with the zune only zunes. No myzune 3g's. If I was to spend all my time to make an app either for apple or zune it would certainly be apple.

@Unclemario I don't hate the ipod. Never have hated the ipod, I just don't understand everyones retard logic in thinkin' that the ipod is the epitomy of PMP greatness while they're are other products that are just as good (or can be if certain companies marketed there shit right). And yes I am cheap, very very very cheap man. Everything I have on my PC is from torrents, rapidshare, megaupload, etc, etc. Same w/ my apps. I'm living w/ minimum amount of currency, so fuck! that i'm not giving them my money. It's a personal choice and i'm stickin' with it. But appstore has never been my reason for stickin' with apple. It's been the fact that I like their PMPs and just the same as that microsoft is upgrading their shit, i'm taking noticed to that.

I sure hope this idiot was banned for good.

Everyone keeps complaining about a lack of an AppStore. The iPod Touch/iPhone was still popular without the AppStore.

because they had no competition :p

OK, the zune is not out yet, but still the touch's app store is great. I highly doubt that people will start making apps for the zune app store when there is an apple one that will get a lot more publicity. IPHONES, and ipods wheras with the zune only zunes. No myzune 3g's. If I was to spend all my time to make an app either for apple or zune it would certainly be apple.

the app store is on on the ZUNE HD and the games look better than any iphone or ipod touch game.

I still love my ipod touch though

the app store is on on the ZUNE HD and the games look better than any iphone or ipod touch game.

I still love my ipod touch though

Yes, but I could bet anyone $5 that it's not going to be nearly as good as the App Store.

Yes, but I could bet anyone $5 that it's not going to be nearly as good as the App Store.

You dont know that. I had my ipod touch for a year until apple introduced the appstore.

There are only a few dozen good apps on the appstore.

Plus Microsoft has all those devs that develop for XBLA games. Im sure the hd will be getting port of those games like peggle, castle crashers, and all those goo games.

It's going to take MS at least a year to have an app store thats robust enough to compete with the apple app store and its 75,000 apps. So i'd wait a while before jumping ship.

Now why not have both like me? Zune HD and the iPhone?

The Zune has great apps so far and are going to continue to expand even before microsoft releases an SDK for it

Yes, but I could bet anyone $5 that it's not going to be nearly as good as the App Store.

The Zune is going to get Project Gotham Racing Ferrari Edition. and the app store is filled with mostly crap games and apps where most of them do them same thing

The Zune is going to get Project Gotham Racing Ferrari Edition. and the app store is filled with mostly crap games and apps where most of them do them same thing

i know right, the app store have like 10 different apps that do the same thing, all apple want is more download from their app store, they dont even care if the apps are crap or not, i hope zune hd is not like, that and does anyone know how does the app store in zune hd works? are they expansive?

i know right, the app store have like 10 different apps that do the same thing, all apple want is more download from their app store, they dont even care if the apps are crap or not, i hope zune hd is not like, that and does anyone know how does the app store in zune hd works? are they expansive?

the zune hd app store is not open for developers, right now it is very small, but Microsoft is trying to make all of their games free. Microsoft is for now going to be the only company developing company for now, microsoft will also work some other 3rd party companies for developing.

so is all of zune's apps free right now? i might think of buying it if they have more apps like youtube, mail, notes, something like ipod touch has

theres like 10 apps currently, and they are completely free

It's going to take MS at least a year to have an app store thats robust enough to compete with the apple app store and its 75,000 apps. So i'd wait a while before jumping ship.

Apple has like a million of apps....i think you are talking about the game apps alone which would equal 75,000 game apps alone :p

It's pretty simple. 80 million unit head start, 1.8 billion apps downloaded. Apple delivered the revolutionary Touch first, and cornered the market.

It's like the PS2 vs. XBox original. PS1 was huge hit, PS2 landed, millions got on board. XBox comes in much later, internal HD, better graphics, HALO, but that didn't have a significant impact, PS2 dominated.

Its going to take quite a bit of time before MS gets anywhere near Apple.

Its going to take quite a bit of time before MS gets anywhere near Apple.

this is why i wouldnt consider a zune for at least a year, to see if it proves itself.

new devices have a honeymoon period. its new, its fresh, and promising, and people will like it just for that alone.

but that wears off, and you begin to see what the device is really capable of, and where it's falls short.

zune hd looks 1000x better than the ugly ipod touch.
ipod touch only beats it with the lame established app store. all luck.

WOW... it looks like i've started a War.

i'm not Saying the Zune HD is bad, it looks great, but it's just gonna be that... Great.
yes it will have a Apps store (i am told), but Microsoft isn't really Known for having the Best Online market place on earth (like iTunes(u can argue if you like, i Honestly don't care)). the Zunes GUI looks very Fiddly and long. i want to listen to my freaking music not look at some, actually quite cool menus for a couple of minutes, finding the track i want to listen to.
on the other hand, the ipod touch looks "UGLY" someone said. (hey i'm trying to make it fair(not being Irrrsonsible like a 9 year old and say the ipod sucks cos it does, Yatty yatty yatta...)

i actually Honestly DO NOT CARE which PMP you get. just keep it to yourself. everyday i come onto this fourm, some people are having spasms over that the ipod touch sucks compared to the HD since the HD has a freaking FM Radio.
A) who uses there FM radio these days, DAB is the way to go
B) who cares if it's HD when it's freaking FM!
C)this is Ipod touch fans. if you have a Grudge on the iPod touch, go over to the Zune HD Fans, Whatever.

Like i said. i DO NOT CARE if the HD Blah blah blah Freaking BLAH!

all i know is that i Know which one i rather would have:

Zune hd

It's pretty simple. 80 million unit head start, 1.8 billion apps downloaded. Apple delivered the revolutionary Touch first, and cornered the market.

It's like the PS2 vs. XBox original. PS1 was huge hit, PS2 landed, millions got on board. XBox comes in much later, internal HD, better graphics, HALO, but that didn't have a significant impact, PS2 dominated.

Its going to take quite a bit of time before MS gets anywhere near Apple.

are you counting ipohned in that 80 mil?

zune hd looks 1000x better than the ugly ipod touch.
ipod touch only beats it with the lame established app store. all luck.

i dont think the ipod touch looks ugly, i like the apple's simple design on their ipod, they all looks simple and very little buttons

are you counting ipohned in that 80 mil?

Yeah, combined total.

aparently, from a friend of a friends, cosins, sisters, aunty, brother-in laws, son told me that the Zune Is gonna release in EU and US but not UK?
well i want a Zune and i'm in the UK. OWE crap :S

The Zune HD looks like it is very flimsy... but I've never held one so I better shut the hell up.It seems nice, but there is just something about the iPod touch that I cannot put my finger on... oh dear that was an unintentional pun... anyway, it does have pretty cool features, like HD output (With a $90 dock). If Microsoft adds a few "adjustments" to the Zune, it may actually sell more than 100 units, and finally catch up to the iPod touch, if it hasn't been replaced by a better line a iPods by then.

The Zune HD looks like it is very flimsy... but I've never held one so I better shut the hell up.It seems nice, but there is just something about the iPod touch that I cannot put my finger on... oh dear that was an unintentional pun... anyway, it does have pretty cool features, like HD output (With a $90 dock). If Microsoft adds a few "adjustments" to the Zune, it may actually sell more than 100 units, and finally catch up to the iPod touch, if it hasn't been replaced by a better line a iPods by then.

sell more than a 100 units? have you read that it is being sold out in most places such as newegg, best buy, amazin, and some others?

just saying, but the zune has many impressive features that the ipod doesnt

sell more than a 100 units? have you read that it is being sold out in most places such as newegg, best buy, amazin, and some others?

just saying, but the zune has many impressive features that the ipod doesnt

I think he meant in comparison to older Zunes. They weren't exactly a smash hit, you know...

But, I'm looking forward to the next iteration of this thing. I'll probably jump on board then (assuming Palm doesn't release anything that I can get).

I think he meant in comparison to older Zunes. They weren't exactly a smash hit, you know...

But, I'm looking forward to the next iteration of this thing. I'll probably jump on board then (assuming Palm doesn't release anything that I can get).
^^What he said^^ If Microsoft gets their shit together, and makes something that can beat the iPod touch, I might actually buy a Zune. Gasp!

The Zune HD looks like it is very flimsy... but I've never held one so I better shut the hell up.It seems nice, but there is just something about the iPod touch that I cannot put my finger on... oh dear that was an unintentional pun... anyway, it does have pretty cool features, like HD output (With a $90 dock). If Microsoft adds a few "adjustments" to the Zune, it may actually sell more than 100 units, and finally catch up to the iPod touch, if it hasn't been replaced by a better line a iPods by then.

I've seen an ipod touch and held them. They look VERY flimsy. I was kinda scared because I thought a drop would damage the poor thing. My friend always has it in casing though, so his is protected.

I would buy a Zune but it just seems like a blatant copy of the iPod touch, also it has apps and games but it doesn't have as much apps and probably won't have as many developers for it.

I would buy a Zune but it just seems like a blatant copy of the iPod touch, also it has apps and games but it doesn't have as much apps and probably won't have as many developers for it.

Please explain as to how it is a copy, because I see two completely different devices?

I think the correct thing to say, would be "YATSPMP" Yet Another Touch Screen Portable Media Player.

I think the correct thing to say, would be "YATSPMP" Yet Another Touch Screen Portable Media Player.

But honestly, how many other formats are there for Media Players to use? Touchscreen is right now very popular.

I think the correct thing to say, would be "YATSPMP" Yet Another Touch Screen Portable Media Player.

so basically if a media player came with a touchscreen, its just like an iPod touch? The iPod touch wasn't the first device to have a touch screen, and if you want it to not be called a iPod touch copy, Zune would have to get rid of the touch screen. like the user said above me, touch screens are popular, so why not put one in there

so basically if a media player came with a touchscreen, its just like an iPod touch? The iPod touch wasn't the first device to have a touch screen, and if you want it to not be called a iPod touch copy, Zune would have to get rid of the touch screen. like the user said above me, touch screens are popular, so why not put one in there

Where did I say or imply anything about the iPod touch? But since you bring it up, it IS the most marketed, most sold TSPMP. So I guess you could say what you're saying.

sell more than a 100 units? have you read that it is being sold out in most places such as newegg, best buy, amazin, and some others?

just saying, but the zune has many impressive features that the ipod doesnt

have you read that there are 10 units per retail? They pulled a Nintendo.
------------------double post merged------------------
The Zune HD looks like it is very flimsy... but I've never held one so I better shut the hell up.It seems nice, but there is just something about the iPod touch that I cannot put my finger on... oh dear that was an unintentional pun... anyway, it does have pretty cool features, like HD output (With a $90 dock). If Microsoft adds a few "adjustments" to the Zune, it may actually sell more than 100 units, and finally catch up to the iPod touch, if it hasn't been replaced by a better line a iPods by then.

Isn't the point of a PMP to be, well, portable? I'm pretty sure if I wanted to watch HD on my TV, I'd just buy a blu-ray player, I've seen a few that are cheaper then the Zune HD itself. Oh lawd, of course it's $90, just like the wireless adapter for the 360...another feature that should have been included with the devices...ANYWAYS, that HD in "HD Radio" doesn't stand for High Definition, you know. It's called "HD" because it's Hybrid Digital. Just another scheme to bring in normal consumers by making it seem like something it's not.

ill stick with the ipod i once bought a zune and it didnt last half the time that the ipod did before it started to frezee and get f^. Same with most computers that use microsoft OS they get crapy not like macs. anyways yea i'd rather get the ipod cause its more convinient as for the moment. Also i think that the Zune software for the pc is way to slow iTunes is way better on speed. Umm and you can also plug the ipod to your tv i dont know what you guys are talking about. Yea the ipod also copied something from the zune the wifi lol and the zune copied the touch screen i mean they have to do it otherwise they can't compete against each other isn't that the way things are?

ill stick with the ipod i once bought a zune and it didnt last half the time that the ipod did before it started to frezee and get f^. Same with microsoft computers after a while they get crapy not like macs. anyways yea i'd rather get the ipod cause its more convinient as for the moment. Also i think that the Zune software for the pc is way to slow iTunes is way better on speed. Umm and you can also plug the ipod to your tv i dont know what you guys are talking about. Yea the ipod also copied something from the zune the wifi lol and the zune copied the touch screen i mean they have to do it otherwise they can't compete against each other isn't that the way things are?

Microsoft doesn't make computers, they make software. If they get crappy, then that is the manufacterers problem. Try a different one.

ill stick with the ipod i once bought a zune and it didnt last half the time that the ipod did before it started to frezee and get f^. Same with microsoft computers after a while they get crapy not like macs. anyways yea i'd rather get the ipod cause its more convinient as for the moment. Also i think that the Zune software for the pc is way to slow iTunes is way better on speed. Umm and you can also plug the ipod to your tv i dont know what you guys are talking about. Yea the ipod also copied something from the zune the wifi lol and the zune copied the touch screen i mean they have to do it otherwise they can't compete against each other isn't that the way things are?

I'm telling this one at school tomorrow.

what would rape apple is if the app store on the zune was open, meaning anyone could create apps to do anything, unlike the restrictions on the apple store =\

what would rape apple is if the app store on the zune was open, meaning anyone could create apps to do anything, unlike the restrictions on the apple store =\

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think MICROSOFT would be more open than APPLE? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

what would rape apple is if the app store on the zune was open, meaning anyone could create apps to do anything, unlike the current restrictions on the zune store =\

*fixed*

haha funny lol jk no do you guys really think that if microsoft opened the app store to the public apple wouldn't open it inmediately too? don't you think apple would try to compete? i mean cmon guys lol seriusly:rolleyes:

I really don't see the Zun Marketplace being successful at all, especially at $99 per submission when chances are your app might not even make more then $15.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think MICROSOFT would be more open than APPLE? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

you're talking about a company who's OS EULA forbids you from installing it on any non-apple product.

HAHAHAHAHAHA. You think MICROSOFT would be more open than APPLE? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

I had that same response when I read what legendary said :p

you're talking about a company who's OS EULA forbids you from installing it on any non-apple product.

I don't doubt that. But we're talking about the Zune and iPhone here. Both have closed OS's though one still contributes to the Open Source community. What I'm talking about is this. Like the Xbox 360 and XBLA, Microsoft has another chance to completely control what goes in and out for their device. But this time, it'll have a wider array of people who will use it and where those people can use it. That has been Microsoft's DREAM. To have a portal where they can provide their services to you. With the Zune HD, they can do that.

In case of the App Store, Apple is actually quite open. ANYONE can developer for the iPhone OS as long as they have knowledge and access to the Mac OS. They provide an SDK that gives you almost everything you need to develop for the iPhone OS. You can install the App if you've payed the 99/ year developer fee or if you're Jailbroken. The App Store is just a place where you can distribute your App easily. Whereas the Zune, you have to be "Hired" by Microsoft to even beta test or even have the SDK.

you phrased it as if you were saying apple were more open than microsoft... which is untrue. microsoft do a similar thing with xbl, they have their xna thing, which costs $100 to sign up to and is very similar to the app developer program. With the app store, apple are quite open, but they still refuse hundreds of potentially good apps every week..

you phrased it as if you were saying apple were more open than microsoft... which is untrue. microsoft do a similar thing with xbl, they have their xna thing, which costs $100 to sign up to and is very similar to the app developer program. With the app store, apple are quite open, but they still refuse hundreds of potentially good apps every week..

"Good" as mentioned many times, is subjective. They only refuse Apps that go into the App Store. But they can't refuse that the App has been made. There are other ways of distributing the App. The App Store is just that, a Store. They put it up there, they get to pick and choose what goes in. Similar to Microsoft's Xbox platform, Sony's Playstation platforms (PSP, PS3, PS2), and Nintendo's platforms (Wii, DS(i)).

but then you get windows.. which is pretty much completely open, no where near as much as something like linux, but that is an open platform. you can install windows on any machine, even a mac.. you can't say microsoft are close minded because they are introducing a rather silly developers program for their zune.

but then you get windows.. which is pretty much completely open, no where near as much as something like linux, but that is an open platform. you can install windows on any machine, even a mac.. you can't say microsoft are close minded because they are introducing a rather silly developers program for their zune.

That has nothing to do with the original topic but... Microsoft's Windows OS and Apple's Mac OS are both very VERY old operating systems, no matter how many revisions it has had, they're old. When they first started out, they NEEDED 3rd party developers to develop for it, otherwise, it wouldn't succeed. This meant that they can't have any control whatsoever on what goes on there. Bad or Good. Fast Forward to now, where Mobile OS's are slowly becoming more and more advanced, to the point where they're almost like the Desktop OS's in terms of what they do. But here's the thing, like Gaming Consoles and the Mac OS, they come with hardware of your choosing. The Zune and iPhone OS are fresh starts where Apple and Microsoft can do whatever they want. They control it.

Both Microsoft and Apple are closed, no matter what is said by any party. But to a certain degree. Like you said, you can install Windows on any machine... But only a certain amount of times because of DRM. Apple's EULA is the only thing preventing you from installing it on any Non-Apple product and more than One computer. There is nothing whatsoever from preventing you from installing it in any other computer (Mac or Not). The only thing you have to deal with is compatibility. Apple trusts you with the Mac OS. They trust that you will install it on a Mac. Whereas Windows? Sure you can instal it on any computer that can handle it. But you gotta check up with Papa before you can keep it running there for long periods of time. Gotta make sure Papa get's his Dues.

Last I checked the Zune HD had better specs than the iPod touch 3G, and honestly who cares if it dosent have the app store 99% of the things on there are either crap or you use for two days and erase it... My guess is the ZHD will probably get some variation of X-box game.. which not gonna lie is pretty BadA

Last I checked the Zune HD had better specs than the iPod touch 3G, and honestly who cares if it dosent have the app store 99% of the things on there are either crap or you use for two days and erase it... My guess is the ZHD will probably get some variation of X-box game.. which not gonna lie is pretty BadA

Even with Better specs, why does it take Zune marketplace Apps 15 - 30 seconds to launch? Good hardware needs great software to be a good device.

My Zune HD apps take about 5 seconds to open which isn't ideal, but it isn't 15-30 seconds. I'm sure they will solve many issues in future software updates.

My Zune HD apps take about 5 seconds to open which isn't ideal, but it isn't 15-30 seconds. I'm sure they will solve many issues in future software updates.

Even Marketplace Apps?

Even Marketplace Apps?

Yeah, those are the only ones that I have.

Yeah, those are the only ones that I have.

Calculator took pretty long to load. And those Ads I feel add to the load time too :\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O_IidrtWE0

Calculator took pretty long to load. And those Ads I feel add to the load time too :\ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O_IidrtWE0

I've watched that video before (subscribed to them on YouTube). For some reason, I've tried all of the marketplace apps and haven't run across a single ad yet. My loading times are also about 5 seconds to open and 2-3 to close. Much less than seen on videos. Do you have a Zune HD? If you do, and you are experiencing ads and long loading times, that is very odd.

I'm not saying 5 seconds to open an app or 2-3 to close an app is fast, but it's much better than last weeks happenings. No ads either. Really strange but enjoyable. I think Microsoft may have fixed some things. I can't wait for software updates to see how much faster they can get things running on this beast of a processor.

I can't wait for software updates to see how much faster they can get things running on this beast of a processor.

I haven't gotten a Zune HD yet cause I'm waiting to see what kind of homebrew community comes out of it. Plus the dock is... depressingly priced. If I could buy one WITHOUT an HDMI cable, it'd be so much cheaper. At least 40 dollars cheaper. And if they drop the Composite cable too, probably drops it 10 - 20 more bucks.

Tegra isn't a CPU. Its a System on a Chip. The CPU is as fast as the one in the iPhone 3GS and iPod Touch 3G. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tegra